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Post by Deimos Tokarev on Oct 1, 2008 19:07:59 GMT -8
well Catholics are mainly for the palliative care, so they have TONS of morphine
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Post by eoinannan on Jan 22, 2009 15:06:57 GMT -8
“First and foremost it's her life and her body.”
This phrase has always bugged me when it comes to abortions. Yes, it is the mother’s body, and the mother’s life, but it is also the baby’s body, and the baby’s life. That baby is not an extension of the mother; it is its own being. It is not an offending limb, or a blemish to be removed, it is a being that just happens to have taken up residence in the mother’s body.
One of the biggest arguments I have heard in support of pro-choice (besides a child of rape) is a child who will be severely limited when born. People argue that it would be better for the child to die, because it would die anyways, or lead an extremely limited life.
When my mother found out my brother would be born with CDH (Congenital Diaphragmatic Hernia) she was given the option to abort him, because he was given a 0% chance of living. CDH is when you have a hole in the diaphragm (which, besides helping you project, also helps keep important things such as one’s large and small intestates from floating around). My brother had no diaphragm. Even from the ultrasound, the doctors could see his stomach was next to his heart. My mom decided against aborting him.
As the months went by, it got worse and worse. When my brother was born, he was immediately rushed to another hospital that was better equipped to handle his case. The doctors still said he had no chance of living. They rushed him into surgery, thinking it could not possibly be as bad as they thought it would be. It was worse. They scheduled the surgery to be about four hours, and it ended up being eight, all of it spent trying to get everything back to where it was supposed to be. Besides having to wear a patch his whole life to replace the missing diaphragm, he also would deal with only three-quarters of a lung.
Miraculously, he survived. The doctors told my mom and dad that Danny would probably not live for very long, and if he did live, he would not be able to do much, and his energy would be about only ten percent of what it would have been. On top of it all, Danny was on a lot of life support machines for the first several months of his life, and something about it caused him to lose his hearing, or most of it, anyway.
Now, he is ten years old, and despite the fact he has to wear hearing aid and his speech is a little delayed because of the hearing loss, he is just like every other ten year old boy. He loves Star Wars, playing outside with friends, and skateboarding. When he gets older, he wants to be a musician (or in musical theater).
Danny is currently the oldest living person with as a severe case, and I challenge anyone to watch him for a couple days, and then tell me he should have been aborted.
Anyway, that’s just my two cents. xD
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Post by ``Jennifer MacKenzie on Jan 22, 2009 18:21:34 GMT -8
I would never think of saying that he should have been aborted - I myself have a moderate to severe hearing loss and wear hearing aids on both ears and have experianced difficulty with certain aspects of speech (higher frequencies and "S"s are still a problem; That's wonderful to hear that he has such a nice life, and that your parents didn't abort - it's like I was saying earlier (as Nonalie de Morangias): what would happen if we aborted a child who grew up to be a perfectly wonderful person that could actually go out into the world and make a difference, no matter how small.
Abortion is such a nasty, convoluted subject to discuss - there's moral and physical ramifications to consider, and it often puts people at odds: in fact, I have several people at school who call people sicko's if they are pro-choice or even aren't sure what they think about abortion;; I'd have to say that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and it's like Gandhi said, "There is a higher court than courts of justice and that is the court of conscience. It supercedes all other courts." The court of your conscience is something that we all must eventually stand before ~ and if any one woman is thinking of having an abortion or is planning to have one, they should first be aware of what they are doing and of the concequences of what will happen. I still think that the mother should have a choice (and the father should be allowed some say, as well), but I think that people should have a better understanding of what they might abort....
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Connor David Quinn
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Post by Connor David Quinn on Jan 27, 2009 7:15:10 GMT -8
I had to do a research paper on abortion. The most common defense for it seems to be, "If the woman was raped..." "If it's a danger to the mother..."
From the resources I found, the rape and health excuses account for.. I believe the statistic was actually less than 1%, but I will say less than 5%. The majority of reasons were these:
1. The mother had obligations such as school or work that would prevent her from caring for a baby.
2. The mother did not feel mature enough for a baby.
3. The mother would be single or was in an unstable relationship.
I got these statistics from an article entitled "Why Do Women Have Abortions?" or something to that effect by J.D. & Torres
Other statistics I found stated that after an abortion, some women are entirely incapable of having children. Also, even with anesthetic, women experience a tremendous amount of pain. There are horror stories of legal abortions where mothers held the hand of their daughters while they died on the operating table, also.
My opinion is this:
1. If the mother was raped, that was horrible, but the subsequent baby was in no way involved. Murdering a baby does not undo the violation of the mother's rights. She has the most right of anyone to complain about an unplanned baby, but there are adoption services that help her pay for medical expenses.
2. Someone who doesn't feel mature enough to have a baby shouldn't be considered mature enough to make the decision to abort that baby. If you were say, 15, and you had an abortion, your life would be easier. And, maybe not then, maybe 10 years later, you could very well live to regret that decision. Chances are, if you have someone in your family you love, you wouldn't be able to think of your life if you'd never known them.
3. Abortion is just some twisted "women's rights" thing that actually causes a lot of pain for a lot of people, the murdered babies aside. It makes women facing an unplanned pregnancy who are confused and scared think, "They mentioned that on TV and in debates, that would help!"
I see the entire debate as devious. I don't think young girls' heads should be filled with that garbage, basically. It's something that looks like a ray of sunlight from heaven pointing to an operating table where all your problems disappear. "Oh, so you did something you shouldn't have done and you are afraid it will interfere with your plans? It's ok! No problem, we'll just clear that up and everything will be fine and dandy, and you can go out and do whatever you want!"
I have pretty strong feelings on the subject. I do have a hormonal imbalance that is, as I have read, the leading cause of infertility in women. I don't know if I'll ever have a biological family, so you can imagine how it feels to think of babies being murdered and treated as if they aren't alive. My opinion is that a baby is another life from conception. Unless it is a really tragic case in which the baby would be born dead, you are carrying a living creature inside you, and if you have that person removed from the womb during his or her development, you are killing a baby.
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Connor David Quinn
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Post by Connor David Quinn on Jan 27, 2009 7:35:08 GMT -8
Also, in response to the Catholic thing.
1) The "be fruitful and multiply" part was to populate the earth. It's populated.
2) Yes, the Bible says that, but it also talks about wisdom a lot (Proverbs).
3) A lot of people do clearly wrong things under the GUISE of Christianity ("wolves in sheeps clothing"). One example is the KKK, as I understand it.
A lot of old southern men, for example, believe strongly in segregation and strongly that couples of different races should not intermarry, and they believe it is a sin.
The restrictions on marriage are heterosexuality "mankind with womankind" and that you find someone who is also of your faith.
4) A priest, however nice, is not God. You could let another person who is not God rule your life as a Christian, but you are actually supposed to read your sacred text and learn for yourself. I am a Christian, though not Catholic, and I will tell you right now: If I am capable of having children, I will not have anywhere near 14 because that would be extremely foolish on my part. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge." is a scripture.
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Caterina Owen
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Post by Caterina Owen on Jan 28, 2009 4:27:04 GMT -8
As I have mentioned before in this thread (under a different username) to abort an unborn and possibly undeveloped child is the choice of the mother. No one elses. Yes... rape and physical reasons are at the bottom of the list when it comes to the statistics.
And I believe that it is simply because many women simply "do not want to be mothers". Not maybe later, or later down the track.... just Not Now.
True. A baby is a blessing no matter what the origin of it was. Some cases become almost like fairy tales in the loose sense of the term. But not always.
And yes... there are sometimes complications that end up making women think - who want a child - "Is it right to keep this child alive?" It's not a matter of murder... more what is best for that child.
Example: Some time ago I myself went through a patch where I was frightened that I was pregnant (Please Deimos... don't tell anyone this). Which I was unprepared for. In the end it turned out that my monthly was simply running late. But during that scare - which my parents don't know about - my mother simply brought up abortion in discussion. And one of her points was "Would you keep the child if you knew that it had something like Down Syndrome?"
And the sad this is that these children are basically handed over to a government run institute ((here in Australia)). The parents still see them but these kids basically live in may as well be called a hospital. It is no life for a child to suffer the possession of Down Syndrome and live in an institute.
So you see.... I have lived a moment in time where I had to consider between what was right in my head.... and what was right for a child. I am only 18 and I will state that it is hard to make decisions like that, at any age.... but it is a decision that we can all make when the need arises.
Reasons of rape and health issues may be the lowest used statistic wise.... but many people must also look at the financial side of things (ie: "Can I support my child?"). Not all of us can gain financial assistance...
As I said. It all depends on what is right for the child. But it is also the choice of the parent....
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