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Post by Deimos Tokarev on Sept 10, 2008 19:35:59 GMT -8
What do you think of abortion
Personally i think abortion should only be availble in rape cases, but it has to be a really early abortion. And in order to save the mothers life.
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Post by ocean on Sept 11, 2008 10:55:02 GMT -8
Hmm, it's very hard to say. Personally, I'm against abortion, I think it's a little sick and twisted; BUT I acknowledge that there are times when abortion is not a horrible thing; in fact, sometimes it's for the best. I read a story about this poor woman who was pregnant with her third child; apparently her previous one was stillborn or something; anyhow, she went for an ultrasound when she was about six months pregnant and the doctor told her that the child did not have a brain. Everything else was fine with the child, but the brain had never developed. So she aborted it for her sake and the child's. Her church chose to shun her instead of supporting her, but you know what? She did the right thing; if she had given birth to the child, it either would have died immediately anyways, or would have been on life support util it did die, wasting precious hospital space and weighing on that poor woman's mind forever.
In rape cases, I think abortion is not a horrible option, I mean, if you went through with the birth, every time you looked at your child, you would remember; but I think adoption should be the first choice; everyone wants a baby, you'd easily find a family who wanted to take the baby.
Honestly, I would never abort, even if it was a rape-child; but I'm not going to look down my nose at someone who did abort, unless it was simply one of those selfish, cowardly women who had no good reason to do it, except that they didn't feel like being a mother. There are times and situations when abortion is appropriate, but I strongly believe in taking responsibility for your actions, and if you got pregnant accidentally; through willing intercourse, you ARE responsible for that child, and you have no right to take away its potential life.
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Post by william on Sept 11, 2008 13:27:36 GMT -8
I agree with Keely....the strongest case for an abortion I think would be if a woman was raped. Then it wasn't really the woman's choice. Yes...I know that some might say, "Well in other cases it could also not be the woman's choice....what if she didn't want to get pregnant?"
Well....if someone doesn't want to get pregnant....then there is only one way to make sure of that. If some one chooses to have sex...then I hope they know that it's a possibility that they will get pregnant. Sure there are precautions we can take. But I don't think that I need to tell anyone how precautions sometimes fall through....whether that be by neglect or mere chance. Soo...in short...I don't think that abortion is a good thing if the pregnancy is a result of two people mutually deciding to have sex.
I don't think a baby and child should have to pay because people decide to have sex and ignore the fact the well....that's how babies are made...*shrugs* Just my personal feelings...
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Post by eldarco on Sept 11, 2008 13:54:12 GMT -8
I agree with Keely and William.
A baby is the responsibility of it's parents. Except in rape cases. Many women choose to abort because they don't want to be reminded of the horrific experience. But others choose to keep the baby, because of reasons of their own.
But then people over look the cases of another touchy subject. One night stands. Most couples that have a one night stand are too drunk to think clearly and the outcome can go two ways. They either use protection or they don't. I don't mean to be bias.... but wouldn't most women abort because they don't want to be reminded of what a fool they were? But then again.... I have only seen one case where there isn't even a thought towards the father. A good friend of mind Crysta is the child of a one night stand. And she doesn't care.... nor does her mother. Having no father around is the best thing for them.... it makes their bond stronger than average. However.... not every one night stand turns out as happy as Crysta and her mum.... or even as happy as the ending of Knocked Up.
Honestly I think abortion should only be for those who are raped and fools of one night stands.... if they so wish. For those who consent ((and I'm talking long term couples)), but don't plan to get pregnant ((but do))... adoption. Anyone can adopt out a baby if they so wished...
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Post by Deimos Tokarev on Sept 11, 2008 14:32:47 GMT -8
Like Brangelina and their love for ethnic babies
What I find funny is how simple and suprisingly logical the church makes it "Killing a human is murder, a fetus is a human, therefore murder" I kind of agree with that, its weird with those double standards of mine
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Post by ``Marian Fitzwalter on Sept 11, 2008 18:58:16 GMT -8
My opinion runs to both sides:
In the case of anti-abortion, I think it's wrong to kill a fetus, simply because you don't want it. It's a living thing, even at it's small, small stage. Every child deserves a chance at life. Who knows how many good people have been killed? Maybe there was a child that was aborted, who, if had been allowed to live, might have found the cure for HIV, or invented some wonderful thing that solved all the worlds problems (maybe that's an exaggeration, but you see what I mean). What really appalls me is the countries like India or China, where the parents will get an ultrasound of their baby, and get an abortion if it's a girl. Is it just me, or does that seem wrong? I also have to say, that yeah, adoption is always an option. Why kill the baby when you could adopt it out? I know, I know, sometimes that doesn't always work out. But not every child is going to get that sob story of no body ever wanting them. Lots of children find perfectly good homes.
However, I am also a bit pro-abortion. I believe that a womans body is her own, and that she should be allowed to have control of it, and her own destiny. Maybe that's totally feminist of my, but it's a belief that I stand for. My grandmothers and great grandmothers fought for their rights, and one of them was the right to an abortion.
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Post by siony on Sept 13, 2008 20:38:57 GMT -8
I'm pro-choice. 100% (although I do find abortion in cases of a baby being the "wrong" gender morally aberrant). It's the woman's body, she should be able to choose what she does with it. No method of contraception is 100%. I know people who were conceived while their mother was on the pill. And besides, maybe it's strange of me, but I don't think that you should force a teenager to become a mother or even to just carry a baby for nine months, because that's a BIG deal physically and emotionally. If I had gotten pregnant at 15, 16, 17 even 18, I probably would have had an abortion. Because I couldn't deal with that in my life at that point, it would have been too psychologically scarring. because you can say "oh there's adoption" all you want, if it's been physically a part of your body for nine months and then you have to give it away never to see it again and to an uncertain fate.
I say uncertain fate here because I know several people who have adopted or were adopted. I don't know about the american or australian adoption agencies, but I've heard more horror stories than good. Entrust my child to someone I don't know? I don't think so.
Then there's the cases no one really talks about. The cases where if little Betty's daddy finds out she's pregnant, he'll kill her. Sounds ridiculous? I know a woman who got an illegal abortion for this reason. She afraid for her life. She's now sterile because of a botched, unsanitary back-alley job. So even if the cause was a stupid mistake, you can't know a woman's situation in life or what other factors may be driving her.
Personally, right now, where I am in life, if I got pregnant, I'd keep the baby. But if I was at a point in my life where physically, psychologically, financially (difficult pregnancies can mean having to quit work and if you're a single mother already struggling to make ends meet, well you can imagine), etc. I couldn't provide for that child, I'd rather get an abortion and I'd consider it an act of mercy. Why would I put into this world a child that I'm unable to care for, whose first experience is going to be abandonment and who very possibly will rattle around the foster system for years without definite placement or be placed into an abusive home?
We're also neglecting to talk about the fact that an abortion is a very invasive, painful (or so I'm told) and emotionally traumatic experience. It's not a decision that's taken lightly by anyone. And starting to condemn women because they decided not to carry the pregnancy to term or ridiculing their reasons is adding an extra burden in a time where these girls need support, just as they would if they chose to have the baby. Either way, it's a terrible choice to make and it's made harder because either way, you have people condemning you.
Basically, I think that any woman should have the right to choose. First and foremost it's her life and her body. Secondly, if abortion isn't legal, medicalised and safe, those women who are really desperate are going to find ways of getting an abortion illegally leading in many, many cases to major health problems such as sterility and death. I'd rather see women get abortions in cases that you the above may find needless than to go back to times where quack doctors left their desperate patients to bleed to death in an unsanitary back room. And yes, that's a true story, my mom's friend luckily got medical help on time and is alive. And like the other woman mentioned above, sterile.
So for me, it's unquestionable: the choice has to be available.
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Post by Deimos Tokarev on Sept 26, 2008 17:25:38 GMT -8
Yeah that's true Sinead. But now something else has popped up here in Australia. All catholic hospitals are threatening to close down if abortion is legalised
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Post by igraine on Sept 26, 2008 20:16:16 GMT -8
Deimos, not so long ago where I am, the catholic church came knocking at your door if you didn't have a baby every year. There's a two-year gap between my second and third uncles and my grandmother got a stern lecture from the parish priest. She had to get a letter from two different doctors saying that her mental health would be severely compromised if she got pregnant again after six kids just to be able to get her tubes tied. One woman wrote in to a local paper to the help column (A kind of Dear Abbie where it was a catholic priest who answered the queries). She had ten kids. She was asking if it was forgivable to start thinking about birth control or getting a ligation. The priest's answer? "I see there's a three year gap between your last two children. I sense a lack of generousity on your part." And this is just speaking of birth control, not even abortion.
That is where we're coming from, here. But we managed to legalise abortion anyway. They may threaten. They may howl. A compromise might have to be reached, but they eventually will have to fall in step with what society wants and needs.
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Post by Deimos Tokarev on Sept 27, 2008 18:14:23 GMT -8
The catholics are crazy with the baby thing, I think its called the Replenish Movement
"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." King James Version, Genesis 1:28
Its stupid, the earth cannot even sustain the current human population. Plus now I hate the bible even more becuase that verse shows that God wants his creation to be psychotic tyrants....for example, conservatives
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Post by Deimos Tokarev on Sept 27, 2008 18:15:03 GMT -8
The catholics are crazy with the baby thing, I think its called the Replenish Movement "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." King James Version, Genesis 1:28 Its stupid, the earth cannot even sustain the current human population. Plus now I hate the bible even more becuase that verse shows that God wants his creation to be psychotic tyrants....for example, conservatives And yes I have actually read the bible, gotta read it before you criticize it
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Post by ``Marian Fitzwalter on Sept 27, 2008 19:21:16 GMT -8
Totally
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Post by igraine on Sept 28, 2008 20:37:37 GMT -8
The catholics are crazy with the baby thing, I think its called the Replenish Movement "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." King James Version, Genesis 1:28 Its stupid, the earth cannot even sustain the current human population. Plus now I hate the bible even more becuase that verse shows that God wants his creation to be psychotic tyrants....for example, conservatives It's because of that quote that until forty years ago the catholic church here was hounding women like my grandmother. The good thing that came of it was that the catholic side had more babies than the protestant side (who were allowed to think about birth control) and we had the "revenge of the cradles" and managed to hold on to our language, religion and culture. But women who didn't want the 14 kids still had no choice. My grandma had 6 and that was a small family.
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Post by Deimos Tokarev on Sept 30, 2008 16:50:10 GMT -8
Oh d***, sorry for the double post, I thought I did an edit. But I don't want to have the catholic hospital close down. my friend who works at one stole some morphine for me (tonsilectomy, Codeine barely works) and i dont know how long my recovery will be
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Post by igraine on Sept 30, 2008 16:57:57 GMT -8
Oh d***, sorry for the double post, I thought I did an edit. But I don't want to have the catholic hospital close down. my friend who works at one stole some morphine for me (tonsilectomy, Codeine barely works) and i dont know how long my recovery will be I know that some places have a "conscience law" where catholic (or other religious) hospitals don't have to provide care that goes against their beliefs. There's always a way to compromise.
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