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LGBT
Nov 7, 2008 19:42:41 GMT -8
Post by boiz9 on Nov 7, 2008 19:42:41 GMT -8
ok ok i should hav used catholic. sorry. also isn't catholicism just a part of christism. and u can't forget the interpretations, Pip, in the list of how come they believe this. i did say in my last post that not all believe it but im sure some do.
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LGBT
Dec 14, 2008 16:39:21 GMT -8
Post by melete on Dec 14, 2008 16:39:21 GMT -8
I don't mean to encourage offense or argument (even as a Avalonian Pagan - I call myself an Avalonian Pagan because technically I am a Pagan but I follow the older faith that originates from the Isle of Avalon. So if anything you can call me a "Follower of the Goddess".) but I was under the impression that Catholic was a variation of Christianity. As are Protestantism, and the Latter-Day Saints. Even after looking at these essays I don't see a difference. So what makes Catholic and Christianity different? And what makes Christianity different from the other variants? Essay's I was reading: mormoninsights.blogspot.com/2008/07/history-of-christian-variants.html
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LGBT
Dec 15, 2008 20:25:52 GMT -8
Post by Deimos Tokarev on Dec 15, 2008 20:25:52 GMT -8
From what I have heard a lot of Catholics are forbidden to read the bible. That explains a lot.
Priest : come here children, i have something to show you *unzip* Kids : but that seems wrong Priest: Well the bible says "Thy priest shall get his hoon on with the young flock" Kids : But we are not allowed to read the bible Priest : Trust me on this
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LGBT
Dec 22, 2008 18:27:02 GMT -8
Post by boiz9 on Dec 22, 2008 18:27:02 GMT -8
err don't all believe in one god? i thought that was wat made them christian
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LGBT
Dec 23, 2008 15:27:32 GMT -8
Post by Aden Shawnson on Dec 23, 2008 15:27:32 GMT -8
But it's different!!
1. They believe that the only way they can contact God is to pray to Mary Mother of Jesus. What I call Christians believe that we can pray directly to God and he will hear us.
2. They believe that their priests can cleanse them of their sins. By most Christian beliefs believing that is in and of itself a sin. No one can cleanse a being of their sins but Christ the Savior and God.
3. They believe that their actions can atone for their sins. As Christians we know that that is not true, nothing can atone for our sins. We must simply trust Jesus' sacrifice to cleanse us.
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LGBT
Dec 23, 2008 17:12:58 GMT -8
Post by annika on Dec 23, 2008 17:12:58 GMT -8
It seems like the debate has gone from its original topic to the origins to Christianity--both are very debatable subjects and I have strong opinions about both, but there seems to be a lot of confusion about how Christianity and Catholicism are related. Since I was raised Protestant, I don't know a lot about the Catholic systems of faith (those that differ from Protestant ones) but I do know a fair amount about it historically. (A lot of this happened a REALLY long time ago, so no one can be sure of the dates or whether any of it actually occured. I'm just stating what's generally accepted as fact by the historical community--not all of which I agree with.)
Jesus was a Jew but preached a new religion, Christianity--the main difference between Christianity and Judaism is that Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah. The Bible laid down a bunch of requirements of what the true Messiah would do when he came to earth, and the Jews didn't think that Jesus fulfilled those. That in itself is open to debate, but whatever. Skipping over about 16 centuries, the Protestant Reformation divided what had been the Western Church of Rome into the Protestants and the Roman Catholics. The Roman Catholic faith is technically closer to early Christianity if you want to look at it in a logical, straight-line fashion. A bunch of stuff about Christianity (dogma, what gospels to include in the New Testament, etc.) had to be decided, so there were several conferences of the Christian church in the first century C.E. Somewhere around 425, the Nestorians (Assyrian church) broke off after either the Council of Ephesus or the Nestorian Schism. After the Council of Chalcedon in 451, the Oriental Orthodox church broke off. The Eastern Orthodox church broke off after the 11th-century Great Schism, but reuinited with the Eastern Catholic church in 1595. That, sort of combined with Roman Catholicism, is basically what we know as Catholicism today. The Protestants broke off after the Reformation in the 1600s, with several branches seperating as they followed the views of different leaders--the Anabaptists, the Lutherans, Anglicans and the Calvinists. There are other branches of Christianity that came from those, but the Catholic and Protestant churches (which it seems are two of the big ones being debated here) have been officially seperated for for about 400 years. As far as core beliefs, the two faiths are quite different.
The Pope is officially a big Catholic leader, but saying that all Catholics believe what he says is like saying that all Christians believe the Bible word-for-word when most Christians take both the old and new testaments with a grain of salt. There aren't a lot of Christian followers who actually adhere to all of the 'rules'. A lot of those, in fact, seem downright ridiculous to nearly everyone.
In response to Thorn's latest post: yep, belief in one God is basically what seperates Christianity AND JUDAISM from most of the faiths that were around so many centuries ago. Judaism was one of the world's first religions to believe in only one God (monotheism).
Deimos: where on earth did you get that idea?! Catholics, including Catholic children, are allowed to read the Bible and there are no laws against it. The closest that what you said gets to fact is that in the early times of Judaism, only adult males were allowed to read the Torah, but that was centuries ago.
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LGBT
Dec 23, 2008 21:37:25 GMT -8
Post by Peregrine Alexander on Dec 23, 2008 21:37:25 GMT -8
I was raised Lutheran, which is a branch of Protestant Christianity, for those who don't know, but my dad's side of the family is Roman Catholic. Dad "switched" from Catholicism to Lutheranism several years ago (we don't really have a "conversation" ritual for switching branches) but it seemed to me that there are only a few differences between Catholicism and Lutheranism. - Catholics believe that they had to pray to the saints and then the saints will carry their prayers to God (similar to what Aden said)
- Catholics have the Pope as their leader in Rome (as Anna said) and Lutherans have the pastor as the head of the church and no one above him
- Roman Catholics are forbidden to have pre-martial sex (but they seldom follow this, at least, my dad's family doesn't), Lutherans...not so much
- Catholics have to purchase "Indulgences from the church, or little certificates that erase their sins. In the Lutheran church, there's a short silence meant to confessing your sins in prayer and then the pastor says his little spiel about Jesus died for us and therefore we are cleansed on all sin, etc, etc...
- Lutherans like German food and beer (okay, I'm joking on that one, but they did seem to be eating/drinking foods that originated in Germany.
In response to Thorn's comment about the one God thing, Jew believe in one God and there belief system is very similar to ours except that we believe in three parts (for lack of a better word) of God---father, son, holy spirit. Jew believe in one figure as God, Christians believe in one person, but in three different components of that figure.
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LGBT
Dec 24, 2008 7:42:13 GMT -8
Post by mizukey on Dec 24, 2008 7:42:13 GMT -8
Ok, being the nut that I am about this kind of thing, I guess I better put in my two sense.
Protestant is a wide umbrella that covers most parts of the wider topic of Christianity, excluding the Roman Catholics and some smaller sects such as the Mormons (who call themselves Christian but I would almost beg to differ) and the Jehovah's Witnesses (which I'm not sure consider themselves Christian...). Protestants believe generally that a person must have a direct relationship to God through prayer. They believe in the 'trinity' (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). There are many different divisions of Protestant that have different practices that very closer to or farther away from the Roman Catholics church. Some, such as the Methodist, have a very similar set up to the Catholics church in the way of leaders (they have a headquarters and leadership goes outside the individual church). Lutheran, Church of Christ, Methodist, Angelic, and others are all considered Protestant sects.
Roman Catholics are a stricter kind of Christian with a few different beliefs. Though some Catholics will swear to you that they don't, I do believe that they pray partially to the saints, something Protestants don't believe in. They also must go to a priest to be cleansed of their sins, which has already been discussed here and they have the whole hierarchy system of leadership, with the Pope at the top. They are allowed to read the bible, but it isn't an important issue. They are never taught how to read and understand the bible on their own, they simply take what the priest says for truth. Many Catholic children don't know basic bible stories such as Noah or David and Goliath. They believe in the trinity and pray with the sign of the cross that represents their belief in it.
So, that's all I have to say for now. I can go into how Church of Latter Day Saints (a.k.a Mormons) are different if you wish, but I won't right now.
((Oh, and Pip, all sects of Christianity are discouraged from having pre-marital sex... just so you know.))
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LGBT
Dec 24, 2008 9:37:00 GMT -8
Post by snowstorm on Dec 24, 2008 9:37:00 GMT -8
Yes Pippin, Lutherans are very much again sex before marriage. The six commandment for them is " You shall not commit adultery." (I think its the six, I also think its the seventh for some other Christian religions) In what I have been told, this is having sex with anyone other than your husband/wife. If you do not yet have a husband/wife then any acts of this sort would be considered adultery.
While in conformation class we were taught this by our Vicar, (a fancy, church word for someone who spends one year during their seminary education learning, serving, and living with a congregation) and then by our pastor. One phrase that both repeatedly said was 'treat your body as a holy temple' meaning to treat our body with respect (talked about while talking about the six commandment.
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LGBT
Dec 24, 2008 10:24:07 GMT -8
Post by mizukey on Dec 24, 2008 10:24:07 GMT -8
Snow and other people discussing the ten commandments- the ten commandments are the same for Catholics, Christians, Jews, and anyone who reads the bible.
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LGBT
Dec 24, 2008 10:33:25 GMT -8
Post by Peregrine Alexander on Dec 24, 2008 10:33:25 GMT -8
Well, let's just say that Roman Catholics are even stricter about pre-martial sex than Lutherans are, or else it varies from church to church, because ours couldn't care less.
I have to disagree with you Snow, because adultery is defined as follows:
(Dictionary.com)
The ten commandments have nothing to say on the topic of pre-martial sex and Christians have been known to bend the rules of the ten commandments anyway (thou shalt make no graven images). I don't know what the relgious laws are regarding this now, but I know that hundreds of years ago, Jews were not allowed to make sculptures depicting human forms and the dolls that young Jewish girls played with had no faces. Christians on the other hand, made large human-formed sculptures, drew human faces on their dolls and certainly had paintings depicting humans.
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LGBT
Dec 24, 2008 13:33:43 GMT -8
Post by snowstorm on Dec 24, 2008 13:33:43 GMT -8
Snow and other people discussing the ten commandments- the ten commandments are the same for Catholics, Christians, Jews, and anyone who reads the bible. This is untrue Mizu, The numbers of the ten commandments are different. For example, for Anglican, Reformed, and other Christians, the commandment I mentioned was 7th, but for Lutherans it is 6th.
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LGBT
Dec 25, 2008 12:53:48 GMT -8
Post by Peregrine Alexander on Dec 25, 2008 12:53:48 GMT -8
But it's got to be the same wording...what does it matter how the commandments are numbered?
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LGBT
Dec 25, 2008 19:37:42 GMT -8
Post by mizukey on Dec 25, 2008 19:37:42 GMT -8
if there are still ten commandments and the wording is the same, it doesn't matter the number, but I would like to look into that. Pip and Snow, what version of the bible are you referencing.
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