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Post by Deimos Tokarev on Oct 16, 2008 0:47:42 GMT -8
Oh, and how does "respect" actually, objectively, benefit anyone. Which soldiers are you talking about anyway, hopefully not Iraq because they die for nothing
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Post by Yuliya Dukhkin' on Oct 16, 2008 6:40:19 GMT -8
Not putting your hand over your heart isn't always a sign of disrespect. For example, during the pledge of allegience, I NEVER cross my hand over my heart, and I usually don't say it because I disagree strongly with the "Under God" part and am firmly for the separation of church and state.
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Post by xanican on Oct 16, 2008 13:39:44 GMT -8
All soldiers that have ever died in any war. Not just Iraq. The red represents the blood, this is not about god its about respecting those that fight for you guys. Its our country, and our duty as americans to show tribute to that symbol of freedom.
I dont expect everyone to respect the national anthem cause not everyone is patriotic but for earths sake, anyone thats running for president shouldnt be so naive as not to pay his respect to the country he wants to lead.
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Post by ``Marian Fitzwalter on Oct 16, 2008 17:48:28 GMT -8
Well, I'm of two minds of the flag issue:
On one hand, I don't even believe in God, and so I don't say the national anthem (woe is me, who lives in a small town); I'm also not that patriotic - I like living in America, but I really don't agree with most of the policies that have been enacted in our past, and in our present, and possibly in our future, Like I said before earlier, I'd rather the whole world be one big community.
BUT, on the other hand, I can see where the problem arises. There are many people who are very patriotic, and believe very much in the symbol of our flag. However, I'm sure that many, if not most, of the people to sing the national anthem do not realize or even care about the symbolism of it, and the flag. To them, it's a thing that's always been done, and who are they to contest it?
I'm not so sure how "free" America actually is, though...what with the many laws, and the current policy of phone-tapping.....
In regard to the war, or any war, like I also said, I strongly disapprove of war. I realize that war is probably somewhat of a "good thing" because it eliminates a bunch of people and leaves more room for those left. But, I maintain that it is a bad thing.
I look at nature around me, and what do I see? Peace. [well, as much peace as animal and plant life can get]. They don't go to war. No, that's a human thing. Only humans could take something as nice as planet earth and screw it up this badly.
As Jimmi Hendrix once said ,"When the power of love overcomes the love on power, the world will know peace." The love of power being greed - greed, which is a chief motivator in the aspect of war, be it for money, power over others, fame, resources, or other goals.
I really apologize for rambling, but the point remains, the flag and national anthem can be a somewhat controversial topic.
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Post by Yuliya Dukhkin' on Oct 16, 2008 17:54:47 GMT -8
Wow, Moira, you are like...the first person other than my best friend that I agree completely with!
Pandion, what use is putting your hand over your heart in comparison to issues and voting? When it comes to aid and support for veterens, the veterens community has given McCain a D and Obama a B. I think that stands for more than for where someone puts their hand at a current moment.
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Post by xanican on Oct 16, 2008 18:46:35 GMT -8
Ive recently spoken to my unit about obama and showed them the picture... now none of them are voting for him either.
Well not everyone needs to be patriotic. Im a Christan but Im strongly against people forcing others to believe in one thing or another. I find that people who do push their religon on others are fools.
However... Obama is running for president... The most patrotic job you can own. The leader of our military, the leader of our country. Should he not be patrotic enough to place his hand over his heart during the pledge of allegiance. Hes christan so theres no reason other then pure and utter disregard for the flags and the national anthems respective places.
Obama seems to show us that he cares nothing for our troops, I cant stress it enough how important it is for a leader to show respect to that which he is leading.
I do not disagree with everything he stands for... The 250,000 dollar thing would help me greatly, but I will not stand by idely and dumbfounded and watch him support abortion, disrespect our troops, our homeland and our country.
Obama is pro abortion in every case... Rape cases- The child should be adopted. You guys have no idea how many families out there are looking for children. Do you know that 95 % (rounded from stats, Its like 95.6 something.) Of abortions are not rape cases or cases where the mother or child's life is endanger... people are using abortion as a means of protection from responsibility.
Since obama supports this, I figure people need to know. Think people before you vote this man in. Mccain was not my first choice but at least hes a good man and was a d*** good soldier. ( I checked his records.)
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Post by ``Marian Fitzwalter on Oct 16, 2008 18:49:50 GMT -8
Wow, it's so neat to find someone who stands for the same things that I do ;D
Pro-Abortion.....that's a big strike against Obama.... edit: I think I misunderstood what Pandion said; the way I read it, it sounded like Obama says that we should always abort the rape child. I did some research, and I found this: He's what is called pro-choice. Which I support, because I believe that a woman should have control over her own body, and be able to choose to not develope a child if she does not wish to. However, yes, I did know about the statistics, and, sadly, there are a lot of people that abort children for their own gains. But, it is their choice. If that makes them murderers, so be it. ..::SEE ABORTION THREAD FOR MORE DEBATION ON ABORTION::..
I'm okay with McCain, too - but I do not - and I repeat - do not like Sarah Palin. I think she would be a very bad person to be put in the government, and especially in a place of such power as the position of vice president. She is very much anti-abortion, which, in some peoples opinions, might be a good thing;; But to me that smacks as another way to control the lives of the people. I know that Obama and McCain are going up against each other for the position of President, and that is the main issue, but perhaps we should also look at the VPs.edit: Also, I was doing some research on the whole tax rasing thing. You say that Obama will raise the taxes on small businesses, and that you support McCain partially because Actually, that's probably not true. According to the nonpartisan Center for Something Something, 95% of American families, Obama's plan lowers taxes. It's true, he pays for that by raising taxes on the very rich—but bottom line is that roughly 101 million people will pay less under Obama than under Bush—and our tax money will go toward rebuilding the economy here, not more wars. Even if you're very rich, Obama has said that you'll pay roughly what you did throughout the 1990s and less than you would have under Ronald Reagan. taxcut.barackobama.com/
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Post by Deimos Tokarev on Oct 27, 2008 16:19:16 GMT -8
So when is the election day anyway?
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Post by River Black on Oct 27, 2008 16:32:45 GMT -8
Election day is November 4th here. So in...oh my gosh! One week! *Is nervous and excited*
I also wanted to say, on the taxes thing, more job were created under Clinton when taxes were higher, than under Bush when taxes were lower. Just another thing to think about. I'm too lazy to write a long thingydingy.
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Post by Deimos Tokarev on Oct 28, 2008 3:01:12 GMT -8
So what do you guys think of this Palin chick, she has been all over the newspapers here. She......scares me
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Post by ``Marian Fitzwalter on Oct 29, 2008 18:43:33 GMT -8
I'm not all that fond of her. She is dead set against abortion, and her family affairs...whew, they sure are something.
Deimos, I think that any woman with a gun would scare you, no?
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Post by armed on Oct 29, 2008 22:42:21 GMT -8
Im only afraid of one woman with a gun and that is kelli, because even she would find a way to find a headshot last forever
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Post by snowstorm on Oct 30, 2008 14:48:52 GMT -8
Palin's family should stay private. And that is all I have to say on the subject right now.
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Post by armed on Oct 31, 2008 23:37:25 GMT -8
What about Palins family? Does she tell everyone if her daughter is becoming a woman or something XD
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Post by Deimos Tokarev on Nov 4, 2008 19:23:26 GMT -8
the candidates of the upcoming election would all like to have you believe that your vote is important.
Unfortunatly the more people they do convince the less significant your vote becomes. As more people vote, your vote merely end up as a token in a continent wide popularity contest, and a mob driven more by emotion than reasoning is what will be responsible for choosing your leader.
Regardless of that, these leader has spent more time throwing mud than addressing real concerns. They make nods and gestures towards problems in the hope that average citizens will hear the words and ingran them in their mind as an association with that particular politician.
You are told that by choosing your leader, when in fact the leader you "chose" does not matter. These people do not have the power to make any real changes to the way things are running now, they can only give more money to some people, and less to others.
Alternatives to this system must be explored
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